Film Groups crystal sync

[Matt Pacini]

I would much rather have an internal crystal setup.
I've got enough crap hanging all over the place, too many things that are tethered to other things, etc., to worry about.

I once saw another place on the internet somewhere, that does internal crystal syncs, but I forgot to bookmark it, and have never been able to find it again.
Does anyone know who this is?

Matt Pacini

------------------

[S 8 Booster]

Not ll camereas need to be x-tal synced to run sync, they are precise enough by design.

Tests done with S8 cams in the "PRO" world seem to confirm that the stability of CPU or pulse generator controlled S8 cams are so excellent that it will only miss 1 frame on a continous shot 15m S8 cartridge.

This means that x-tal mod / option is not really needed for 24fps shooting and if your cam has a 25 fps setting it may not be needed for that either.

ref:http://www.theasc.com/netforum/opnfo...i/8--568.1.0.1
last (bottom) message:


Extract:
Subject: super8
Reply Posted by: edward koehler ([email protected] )
Organization: ekoefilms
Date Posted: Wed Dec 27 22:30:10 2000
Message:
...........i suggest running a few tests of wild synch before investing in the film group crystal synch conversion ($550). many super8 filmmakers i've spoken with have maintained synch throughout an entire 50ft roll with only 1 frame variation. that's how smooth some of the super8 camera's operate. the cameras they were using are the nizo 4080 and the canon 1014xl-s. i've avoided the nizo's altogether as they have a reputation for temperament. if you have any other questions, you can contact me at the address listed above. good luck. -ekoe.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------
Vidar

[Hanthx]

I was wondering what modifications does the film group due to the actual camera. My question being is "what if my camera dies", is the crystal useless then.
I visited their website and saw that its not physically attached to the body, Im assuming thats a plus.

I know there a few of you who have had this modification done, will the crystal work with another camera without their modification.

Just curious
Scott

------------------

[crimsonson]

No -
there is an internal modification done.

The box may not be useless since I think each box is pretty much the same.
Its the labor cost to adapt each camera to the sync that makes each purcahse unique.

------------------

[Matt Pacini]

Well, I beg to differ.

I tested my Nizo 6080, and my Bauer 715XL-S (both excellent cameras), and the Nizo gained 8 frames per minute, and the Bauer gained 12 frames per minute.

That's still pretty good, but it's not one frame per cartridge!!! (2.5 minutes).

And these are in excellent condition, and have been serviced.

I think people's experience syncing up their dialog may attest to this also, although obviously, there are many causes for slipping sync.

By the way, here's how I tested my cams:
I fired up Cakewalk Pro Audio on my computer, which has a SMPTE time code window.
I set it to 24fps, started the sequence, which starts the count, then I filmed the monitor with this SMPTE window expanded really big.
I got the film developed, and counted frames, comparing the count to the SMPTE number in the frame.


Matt Pacini

------------------

[S 8 Booster]

Hi Matt.

I expect your tests to be correct. I did a similar test with my Canon 1014 Xl-S but have not got the film developed yet.

The Canon however, has an adjustable pulse generator as a reference for the camera speed. This can be set very precise so I expect it to work well out of the box.

The 1014XL-S incorporates what it took to sync film/sound properly in the days of manufacture including recording a sync 1000Hz pilottone on the film in the camera as well as a separate sync sound recorder so I believe (hope) they did a proper job on the film transport to ease the sound part.

I think I read once that this cam was intended for TV news work but I am not sure.

Suffcient cam battery power may be another factor that influence on non x-tal cams.

The info I found was at a "PRO" forum (http://www.theasc.com/netforum/opnforum/a.cgi/1) so I expect those guys to have made proper tests one way or another.


RGDS

------------------
Vidar

[#Pedro]

Hi all!
It?s pretty possible, that a electronic controlled S8 cam holds it?s own framerate very constantly, good enough for wild sync.
But, every camera might run at a slightly different framerate, that is hold constantly.
The idear of crytal sync is not primarly to stabilize the speed, but to create an independed unique ABSOLUTE framerate reference, that can be reproduced in all other devices that are in the system chain. Only a crystal garantees, that 24,000000 frames per second are beeing reproduced in all the devices of the editing chain, independend of load, voltage level, temp and humidity.
A crystal regulation is nothing secret or exepensive, the prices of the film group are artificially high, especially for the box. And it CAN be integrated completely, there is a crystal modification for the Beaulieu S models, that enter totally into the case, above the viewfinder.

To avoid crytal sync and the neccessary clappboard, you can hook the devices together, taking advantage of the pulses per frame. This way you do basicly the same thing: garanting, that all devices are forced to the absolut same framerate, even if each of them could run constantly by it?s own. But it?s important, that all of them are following the same master speed, that can be a crystal or one of the devices itself.

Pedro

------------------

[S 8 Booster]

You are right Pedro. The cost of the (internal) components to x-tal sync a camera (that is available for it - quite many) is probably less and 1$.

The high costs to modify the no-beaulieus are most likely the labour cost to dismantle the cam and get to the curcuit board to get the PCB and re-adjust the cam drive reference settings.

I think it is still a good thing to do a wild sync test on your cam before doing any mod. After all most takes of movies where lip sync are required are probably less than 15 secs.

And, if the sound edits are done on computers it is no problem to adjust the sound track to sync anyway. Stretch, tweak and turn any which way you want it.
It fits anyway.



------------------
Vidar

[Nigel]

I am sure that a person could and should build more crystal units into cameras. I don't mind my external crystal from The Film Group. I have often thought of reverse engineering it too. However, my electronic skills are nil at best. Good Luck

------------------

[supa_ate_sixteen]

I think it would be cool if something a little more reliable was developed in the US for recording sync sound and getting it on our camera original print , "in sync". I know many people are just going to video and so sync isn't a real issue since their using an NLE system. What methods are out there that can make use of sync sound and the camera original Super 8 film. I'm sure everyone would agrees that showing our Super 8 films on print is where Super 8 makes its mark. So if we could develop a method of recording sound and the camera pulses, and be able to edit those two signals in sync on our NLE, and somehow maintan that sync while transferring our soundtrack to match edited print with sound stripe, we would be very happy campers, right? I guess the question isn't so much the issue, rather who out there will develop and finalize this method for others to follow. Any takers?

------------------